it was a shameful dereliction of duty. >> the prime minister will be aware that the mayor of london, boris johnson, proposes to close nearly every single ticket office on the london underground network, with more than 700 jobs being lost. does the prime minister believe that that is the way to raise living standards for ordinary londoners? >> the best way to help londoners is to ensure that we have a safe and affordable tube, and that we use modern technology to deliver that. the conversation that the hon. lady needs to have is with the trade union that has done so much damage to our underground. we ought to have no-strike deals on the underground and permanent systems that provide a good service. >> earlier this week in brighton, i was tested for hiv.

this sunday is world aids day. in view of the fact that one in five people with hiv in this country does not know that they have it, does the prime minister agree that regular testing is to be encouraged? >> i pay tribute to my hon. friend, all hon. members across the house and everyone in politics who campaign so persistently and consistently on this issue. it is vital that we improve the livelihoods of people who have hiv and aids in the uk, but it is also vital that we continue working internationally, including through our aid budget, to tackle hiv and aids around the world. we can be proud of the money that we have put into things such as the global fund and of the fact that this country has achieved the target of 0.7% of gross national income, when many other countries have broken their promises. >> the prime minister is very keen to encourage energy users to switch providers to get the best tariff. why has it been so difficult

over the past three years to switch mobile phone providers? >> across all the utilities, we want it to be easier for people to switch. we have done that on banks. it is now easier to switch bank accounts because of the hard work of the chancellor of the exchequer. it is now easier to switch energy providers because of the excellent work of the secretary of state for energy and climate change. it ought to be easier to switch with other utilities, that is an important bit of work that we are doing. >> the number of apprenticeships in cornwall has doubled since 2010, which is helping to create a stronger economy and a fairer society. will the prime minister meet me and a delegation of young people from cornwall to see how we can further promote these very worthwhile schemes? >> i am delighted with the news about the number of apprenticeships in cornwall. the government have made a major financial commitment to funding apprenticeships.

that is making a difference, but there is far further to go in tackling youth unemployment and worklessness among people between the ages of 16 and 24. i am always happy to meet with him, perhaps a suitable moment might be when i am in cornwall. >> house prices are going up at a time when real wages are going down. does the prime minister accept that when interest rates go up after the election, it will detonate a sub-prime debt crisis of his making? >> the greatest danger in terms of interest rates would be to have a government who believed in more borrowing, more spending, and more taxing. that is what would drive up interest rates, that is what would hit the cost of living and that is what every family in this country should dread. >> order. >> you're been watching prime minister's questions. question time cares on c-span2 every wednesday. again on sunday night at 9:00

p.m. eastern on c-span. you can watch anytime at c- span.org. on the next washington journal, what to expect from healthcare.gov afternoon fixes. scott wilson joins us. health careon state exchanges and online enrollment compared to the federal exchange. in recognition of the 150th anniversary, a discussion about the law and dealing with whistleblowers and its effectiveness. plus, your calls, e-mails and tweets on "washington journal" on c-span. social media is an old idea. we think it is recent and only people alive today have done it.

there's a very long and rich tradition of social media that goes back to the late roman republic. that is first century bc in the point is you do not need a digital network to do social media. you could actually do it in your own face. cicero did it with messages running to and from and other members of the roman elite. they all spoke each other as a social environment. there've been many other examples throughout history. martin luther and his use of pamphlets. tom payne and his common sense. in the way that pamphlets were used during the revolution. >> the first 2000 years of social media on a quote the communicators" on c-span two. >> republican governors rick perry discuss the gop future.

then a conversation with u.s. trade representative about of the current state of u.s. trade agreements. at 11:00 p.m., q and a with a doctor. >> a group of republican governors discussed the party message. governors rick perry john kasich and mary fallon top about the policies -- talk about the policies that have adopted and how they are resonating. the a recent event part of annual meeting in scottsdale, arizona. it is a little less than one hour. >> if you could come in and take your seats, we will start right away. we will talk about messaging in 2014 and what we have to do to actually have a more successful 2014 and 2016 than we had last year. i have to tell you it is so

great to have governors appear that are actually getting things done in their own state -- governors up here that are actually getting things done in their own state, unfortunately, like too many washington republicans. i am looking at john kasich right now and i am so glad he is here. he is the reason i got into politics. so you can blame john. i was 28 years old and i was watching john on the house floor. and instead of john just saying we don't like bill clinton's budget, john kasich made his own budget. he worked with tim penny and they went on the floor in the middle of this debate and they talked for about 30 minutes, 45 minutes about their vision of how to balance the budget and how to move this country forward. so when i went out on the campaign trail, instead of just criticizing bill clinton, when people asked me what would you do?

what would you vote for when you got to washington, d.c., i said that i would do what john was talking about doing. we didn't like hillary's health plan so we had two or three different republican ideas for health-care plans. newt helped put together the contract with america so we went out and we had a positive on the constructive approach in the campaign. and it made a big difference. you remember earl hutto? you served with him. i ran against a 16-year incumbent, a democrat named earl hutto came from a district that hadn't elected a republican since 1873. and they hung the last republican they sent up to washington, d.c. vote for me. even we had ideas.

you are laughing because you agree with my dad. but how important is it that, in 2014 and beyond that we, instead of being the party of no, we have a positive path forward like all of you have. >> the story is in 1993, we put this alternative together. the republican conference was very nervous about this. so we had this big conference meeting. i think that they there were 35 speakers here and 33 of them said there is no way we are presenting an alternative to clinton. this is crazy. we will get attacked. so i went to the back of the room and newt was there. i tell them that there were 33 no and two yes. and he said we thought we were doing better than we were. it got leaked out. ideas give you energy. if you don't have any ideas to the positive, you don't have any energy. and if you don't have any energy, you are not appealing. there is a tendency to rely on

negative and anger and all that stuff. that doesn't create any imagination, any vision, any excitement for anybody if you do things that way. you are having to deal with the crazies like me in 1995 and 1996. >> thank god you were there. >> well, yeah, we blew ourselves up because we were so negative and we so focused on being against the bill clinton. once we got up there, it took us a while to figure it out. >> like in 1995, one thing that people never understood about the shutdown was that the clinton administration was trying to cook the books. they had phony economic numbers. they were projecting the economy would grow by 4% or 5% -- i don't remember the numbers. they were unrealistic.

you didn't have to reform the government to get to a balanced budget. that was a fight worth having. after having gone through that, i had members of the administration come to see me and say, ok, we want to really engage in this again. in that case, the shutdown resulted in something positive and something that could be attained. we ended up doing negotiations, the 1997 agreement, balanced budget, paid down the largest amount of debt in american history, had a growing economy. in that case, you have to stand and fight, but you have to have an achievable objective long haul. >> and a positive message for it. let me ask you, governor perry, about a moment during a debate we are talking about being positive. immigration. it is a positive moment for you -- i think.

it is a positive moment for you. >> that is a pretty short list. >> this was really positive. you talk about being positive on something like immigration reform. i am not saying that pathway to citizenship or pathway to legalization, but you just talked about the need for our party to be compassionate. we needed to be compassionate and you got absolutely killed for saying that. i will even go a step further. mitt romney decided that he needed to lurch his four-one extremist and it ended up killing us. how do we win that hardware, not only at the governor's mansion but also in debate like that? how do we as a party do more of a positive message? >> i think you are right, joe and mary will agree with this as well. historically, republicans have talked with their mind. we like to dump all the statistics out there. we are the number one state for job creation or the number one

this for that. we pitch all of these cold and sterile facts out. what maybe a better way to message this is that being the number one job creating state in the nation is about a family that is being able to take care of themselves better. it is about the young hispanic who five years ago didn't have a job or may have had a minimum- wage job that best and today they are driving a truck in south texas because of the energy boom that has occurred in that sector, making over $100,000 a year. and how that young man and his wife and the home they are living in, they are talking about their children being able to go to an institution of higher learning, the first in their family who has ever done that. that is occurring because of the policies that have been put in place by republican governors in most cases.

i want to really get us to focus on talking about how we transition the conversation away from washington as the place where all of the decisions will be made and the solutions -- they will not be found in washington, d.c. nine they will be found in capitals where governors like john and mary and myself and paul lapage -- i mean, that is where the solutions that are going to face americans. frankly, we don't need to talk negative about the president of the united states. he has taken care of that pretty much on his own with his health care program. but what are the alternatives? i happen to think that the alternatives are not one-size- fits-all, that washington all too often wants to impose upon us, but allow the innovators in ohio, allowed the innovators in

oklahoma -- i believe that a blue state governor has got to feel that they can put health care plans in their state together better than some bureaucrat in washington, d.c. talking to people's hearts is that messaging part of it, whether it is dealing with immigration, which i will suggest to you as an aside that the immigration debate will change substantially in the next 18 to 24 months especially if mexico is successful in liberalizing their oil and gas exploration policies and allow the private sector to come in and probably contract and then look at the concessions later on completely change the immigration discussion. and i would recommend that the discussion will be where will we find enough people to fill all the jobs that will be created in this country because all those people that came over here

illegally will be back home. change inascinating policy. because of what i hope occurs in the north american region, canada, the united states, and mexico, to collectively become this very powerful energy- producing region that is independent of other areas of the globe for energy. the messages about the heart rather than the head. and nothing wrong with the head. >> nothing wrong with the head. alex, that really has been our problem. we haven't -- byron was talking about this before. it used to be that we were great at explaining how less government and less regulation actually mattered in people's lives. we have forgotten how to connect our beliefs and make them relevant like margaret thatcher did. shopkeeper's daughter.

she knew that what she believed was not just good for a multimillionaire. it was good for working class citizens who wanted to rise. there is a lot of that story in this great new book i just read by joe scarborough. i highly recommend it. [laughter] >> go, speak, preach. >> but, no -- the head and heart informed with reason and persuade with emotion. that has always been our dictum. but we have moved beyond marketing. marketing is for selling things that don't work. when you have something that works, you serve. and then you tell people about it. and even in telling them, you are doing a good thing. i think one of the things we ought to remember is our ideas are not old and dusty things on a shelf that are irrelevant to the world we are in today.

as a matter of fact, the world we are in today, a highly connected world where we are not cogs and gears and some industrial factory in washington. we make decisions. we have information. our principles that we have always -- that we have always had, they are actually the best way to tackle problems and help people live better lives. if we are going to talk to a new generation of voters and we will be an inviting party, we speak to them about their world. when we say things like free enterprise, it is hard for them to connect. but when we talk about an open economy, a bottom-up economy, those are our principles. and the world they live in, open things is better than closed things. bottom-up is better than top- down. to connect in their world -- obamacare didn't fail because, hey, they just didn't happen to do this right. it failed because of the same reason that other stuff fail.

it is old. it is top-down. it is factory. our principles are always fresh and new ideas if we just become about them in ways that say, hey, our principles are good for more than just saying no. we have a way to better organize society, solve problems, open school system, where parents get to actually choose the best school for their kids and you go get trapped in a failing school. an open health care system. an opened economy where you don't have political top-down decisions. those are the kind of things that will work better for you. >> i want you to join in with what we are talking about here and the positive message and the constructive way forward to but

also, if you can talk about the energy revolution. so many people who are responsible for it are from your state, talk about the energy revolution and what that will mean, not only for working class and the class people in oklahoma but, if we do it right, or millions in loans of americans. >> i think that is where the white house is missing the point, how we can grow america's economy and treat not only a better national security -- and create not only a better national security for our nation but a better economic security for our nation. oklahoma, texas, pennsylvania, ohio, other states -- certainly alaska and north dakota who have tremendous natural resources where there is oil, gas, wind in oklahoma, certainly a big feature, we are creating economic opportunity, raising our standards of living, creating jobs and there's a trickle down effect throughout our state and other businesses even unrelated to the intersect the energy sector because of the growth of the energy industry so. but you also have to have the

right regulatory environment which is where washington typically gets it wrong. currently, the administration gets it wrong. and our state, we allow private investment. we allow people to take risk. we create the right business climate by keeping our relations fair and being responsive and looking at workers compensation reform or hiving -- or having a highly educated labor sector. drive an things help economy. people in the past said, well, we really don't have enough fossil fuel supply. but now we know, through technology and innovation, having the good and fair regulations, that we do have energy supply. so my state of oklahoma, since 2011 when i took office because of our business-friendly policies, education, reform we have done, making government smaller and more efficient, we

have seen our economy change. the per capita income has grown by 8% for a family of four. >> it is self-defense. you have a guy who will steal every last job from you if they can. rick perry -- he is glad they are up here right now. while we are up here talking, he had his people on the phone to ohio and oklahoma stealing their jobs. >> we fish where the fish are. and generally speaking, i am spending a lot more time in california or illinois and new york than i am in oklahoma. >> we just beat him in football. [laughter] >> you know how to hurt a person, mary. >> but listen to talk to you about the pro-business environment and see what governor perry has been doing

for over a decade. there was a great moment when mikael gorbachev was talking to the canadian prime mr. mulroney and gorbachev said don't lecture me on your capitalism and your nterprise. mulroney said i'm not going to lecture you. do you think i want competition? that sort of competition, you don't care if you -- you don't care if california and jerry brown straighten it out. >> i want tell -- to be successful because they are so important to our country, but you're not going to be better, whether you are an athlete or whether you are a private sector business person or a governor and a government unless somebody is pushing you to be better. she makes me get up every morning because of the policies she puts into place. bobby jindal pushes every day on tax policy and regulatory climate for us to be more competitive. rick scott in florida, i guarantee you that guy is

working double overtime to put policies in place that make me uncomfortable. but we understand, although it is uncomfortable, it will make us better. and at the end of the day, it is better for our citizens. i don't go to california to pimp jerry brown. i really don't. i go to pimp the legislature to do the things that are right for their people. unless we're there and talking about, listen, there is an alternative -- i mean, i am standing in laguna beach talking to 30 individuals who were curious about our little at a -- ad campaign and they came to listen to what we were talking about. and the sun is going down, touching the pacific -- laguna beach. we are at the montage hotel. what an incredibly beautiful part of the world. and i said that is exhibit a of how government could screw it up so bad that you would leave that.

that is the type of competition that will make this country stronger. it is the governor's putting tax and regulatory and legal policies into place that will make these states more competitive. in illinois and new york and even california, at some point in time, their people will say, you know what? you just can't continue to tax us. we will leave here. and they will either go bankrupt or they will change their policies. and at that time, don't you think america will be stronger? >> the ohio house today -- it may be happening right now in -- is passing a resolution calling for a constitutional convention for a federally balanced budget. you want to put some strings on the folks in washington and you want them to get to a position where they will act responsibly and they will start making

decisions like we have to make? we can get to up to 32 states doing this. they will move quickly to do something. serving as the budget committee chairman in d.c. and governor of ohio with the largest deficit in our history now balanced with a surplus, we want to get them to focus on doing their job. we all have to get behind this, republican governors, democratic governors. we have $17 trillion debt. it is sucking a lot of the life out of our country. we have the chinese using american dollars that they take from us to recycle in places around the world with the influence they have. we've got to balance the budget. it will restrain them. it will lead to greater economic growth. it is time to get back on this again. i think it is one of the most important issues the country faces. it will be interesting to see if democrats and if liberals recognize the fact at some point

they have to be responsible in that town and meet the challenge of these deficits. >> you have been fighting it your entire public life. that is exciting. let me ask you. i have been struck since i'm in here by how many people are concerned that the republican party will repeat the same mistake in washington, d.c. that they made over the last several months. you know, the government shutdown idea was a great idea. [laughter] you have governors were pulling their hair out. ken cuccinelli will tell you that he lost because of the shutdown. have we learned our lesson?

will they make the same mistake again in january? >> no, i don't think they will. i was talking with representative michele bachmann it is definitely not going to happen. i was talking with representative michele bachmann. she said, can you believe it, they shut down the government because of the difference between cbo numbers and omb numbers. isn't obamacare much more important than that? >> that was an oversimplification actually. >> but you have a party, the republican party that, with everybody agreeing about obamacare, they want to get rid of it, they still managed to spill an enormous amount of each other's blood fighting over this. i think they have learned some lesson about that. certainly the leaders will say it will happen again. but i want to go back to something that alex said something before about the freshness of republican ideas. i don't think the public hears that.

if you listen to the presidential debates of 2012 and 2008, other than barack obama, the name that was mentioned the most was ronald reagan. they couldn't stop talking about ronald reagan. a lot of their ideas were 1980 era reagan ideas. their idea was to cut taxes. if your car breaks down, cut taxes. if you're houses on fire, cut taxes. if your lawn needs mowing, cut taxes. that was the only idea that they presented to voters. americans thought that they had very old ideas. >> they only felt that way because it was true. >> how many years have you seen the same commercial where a guy stands up and says i am for less taxes, less regulation and more freedom?

we've been doing that since 1980 and, yes, we are all for that. but if that is the only message and we don't connect that to working-class voters -- by the way, in 1994 when we took over, we owned as a party working- class voters making like 30,000 dollars to $60,000. we dominated that area. >> your point about ronald reagan speaks to that. reagan was a child of goldwater. that is what inspired me to get politics. anti-big government, anti-communism. bad ideas, right? e fit our conservative principals to his day. it, dded something to

economic determinism, optimism. we can do and be anything we want. there's a shining city out there, right? we have a rendezvous with destiny. what reagan did in his time for his party, our time to do in our for our party. our job is not to go back anywhere. argument.a wonderful big top down government doesn't work. they served us an example of how it doesn't work. works.g what does work? what republican governors are doing. to the s closer problems. governing bottom up, know, we've you got the examples. we can make a better case now. the o the point about amendment, get

that's the great fight to have. with that. the base but moses didn't say, hey, i got great idea, let's go to the desert. it's really hot there, dry, a little bit. it will be good. moses said let's go to the promise land. better. we have to go through the desert. we have to balance the budget. important. it's for a purpose. we have a better way to attack problems, to organize society and to help people with health care. things, we can lead people somewhere. >> you know what? i don't disagree with that. but if you look at the success of republican governors, jobs created. so if you ear not creating -- moral ation is the most imperative in the country today. if people aren't working, they lose dignity, they can lose strength in the family, whatever

like.amily looks job creation is critical. there are certain things you create jobs. perry has half of them created in the united states. ommon sense regulation, no income tax. if you think taxes don't matter? moving to florida and texas? because we're taxing them. people respond to that. the matter is that throughout political history, it's jobs. elected that roosevelt, the other roosevelt. elected reagan got because we were mired in a deep recession and he said we can have a better way. it all does get back to jobs and the party that can show you to hat they can get work, that they can improve your income, those are the ideas we need to promote. do you do that? well, you do it with regulation, you do it with tax cuts. training. with job you do it with real education that links people to the jobs today.xist now, beyond that, you can't ignore people who live in the

shadows. that's the heart. somebody is mentally ill, you tragedy in virginia yesterday. illness, drug addiction, working poor. you can't get people stuck on other side of the bridge to prosperity. we have to build a strong economy with the tools that it takes. we can debate those all day long. if you don't have balanced me tell you, alex, said if people in washington can't balance the budget, they can't understand common sense. a virtue and a value. if you can't create strong jobs, ou can't ignore the people who want to get across the bridge to share in the bounty of america. party, s in our sometimes in both parties, there's a forgetfulness of what get unstuck need to so they can be successful and have our dreams.

you think about the people who their jobs through globalization. you think of the people who lost their jobs because of sickness their family. they can't be ignored. ohio.t ignoring them in it communicates two messages. you understand how to give them opportunity through work and a better tomorrow. and if you get stuck, we'll be you in whatever way you can. we'll make sure we measure so we are stuck overou the bridge. o that to me is a message that i think it shows we care. last thing i'm saying -- going on here. know you're going to -- >> joe, they did a survey. romney ed voters about and obama. and romney won like four things. was who one understands our problems better? obama, 81, romney, 19. why? really saw his heart. he's a wonderful man. i don't know why that happened,

but when people have to know you care about them, that you understand them, and if they're stuck in the ditch, the shoulderto put to the back of their car and ou're going to help push them out. if we can demonstrate more of that, people will say, that's a new brand for republicans. create jobs, compassion, and care. i think it works. >> joe, i think in our nation worriedrican people are about the direction our nation is going. if they look at the polls, they ell you, america is concerned about where our nation is going. i hear it on the street, hear wit the families. people stop me in the convenience store and say i'm concerned about where our nation is going. to do to get ing it back? i think there are great examples our our governors, conservative governors, our republican governors out there problems and bringing forth solutions to address those problems. here's an old saying that says people don't care how much they know until they know how much you care.

e've got to do a better job as a party showing people that we listen, that we understand their problems, that we're going to do something about it, and then keep a word and do something it.ut that is the big difference what our party stands party the democratic stands for. 'd that is the big difference. they have done a better job on messaging. it making people believe they care. i do not believe that. if you look at individual states, we are focusing on jobs. we are focusing on education. we are focusing on trying to make a healthier system more amenable to the people versus the big government run, cost too much, too complicated. it's not working. we all know that. it is about the kitchen table issues. when i sit with my husband, we talk about it at the kitchen table. we talk about paying for college. my husband talks about his

business and regulations and we taxes and talk about our children being able to get a college.et out of what kind of job? are they going to stay in oklahoma? will they have to move somewhere better paying job? it's about paying bills, making house payments. the issues, not taking care of our health. he families might have a problem with substance abuse or mental illness. talking about the things that family in a and something that people can relate to. >> you talk about americans scared.rvous and being byron, they are. it seems like for a long time, stopped talking about the bush tax cuts. the rich are getting richer and poorer. are getter barack obama gets elected, the richer, the tting poor keep getting poorer. ack to 1973, the average wage for the american male has gone down in real dollars every

1973. year since a lot of that has to do with the act that we're more productive than ever, we have an i.t. revolution. if aw a statistic that said american factories were operating the same level of 1993, 20n they were in million to 30 million more be working today. how do we -- how do we alleviate the suffering d that so many working class americans. middle class americans feel they're being left behind getting rich do keep richer, the poor keep getting america, butjust in in the entire west. >> the same things that the said were the entirely different message than what came from the nominee in race.12 there's no doubt about that. two problems. hat alex said about marketing is right too. the actual substance was wrong

here. republicans had not been able to get past a lot of his 1980, the last truly successful president. ut in 2016, the election of ronald reagan will be 36 years in the past. they'll need to show people they that. beyond what they did in 2012, it was people ing what so many suffering so much economic to focus on chose entrepreneurs. on business. it -- if you look, i mean i mentioned this before, i'll say it again. at a word cloud, an analysis of the words that were the n from the podium at republican convention and democratic convention, democrats class, five, six, seven times more than republicans said it. democrats said it a lot. they used the word education more than republicans do. word fair a million times more. the big words republicans used?

freedom., success, all good things. but they did not connect with those anxieties. they sent entirely the wrong -- if you have a candidate -- you're about to talk about mitt. how devestating was that 47% remark. he said it the day after the election in explaining his loss. > as a matter of fact, this very meeting, that news came out, he said it on a donor call, obama had won by giving a lot of gifts to voters and the governors here were appalled. making statements, distancing themselves from it. they were depressed because defeat for big republicans. but it really ran through this meeting. news that governor romney had said this again. >> again. the wrong id send message. and the celebration that overnor romney did of entrepreneurs. here's my friend jimmy john. he started making sandwiches in garage and now has 1500 restaurants.

well, that's actually very good. you look at any rally and say how many people here make a that from the business you started, it's not very many. most of them, people work for they're else, and worried right now about their job. they lost it. hey know somebody who lost theirs. they're worried about that. nd republicans in so many ways never address that and that is the question for republicans in have a ether they will candidate who can actually address those concerns in a real way. >> you know, governor perry, alking about this, talking about giving hope to americans my dad working lockheed, got laid off in the early '70s, was out of work months. made him more of a republican, not less. made him more of a republican. believed by voting republican he had a better

chance of an economy growing he thought republicans understood what it took to get us through a recession. sense on the national level people in my dad's position today may not still believe that. >> i think we see it in wall street is doing pretty good. as a matter of fact, wall street is doing real good. there's this disconnect between he blue collar -- i mean, i'm -- you know, i'm pretty blue collar. collar.retty blue growing up on a dry land cotton is pretty t texas blue collar stuff. my dad if you ask what political belongs to today, he's 88 and he'll say democrat party. he'll remind you he hasn't voted for a democratic president since 1970s. but the key is it goes back to of who's going be able to put best put policies in allowce that are going to us to make decisions that are best for our family.

nd governors in red states, i think, over the next 12 months s we prepare for those 2014 elections, these governors that are creating jobs, that are environment, where people get to keep more of what they work for. a great e have opportunity to reset the about ty in this country what really is important. and what's really important is could -- how can i best take care of my family? policies that are oing to be implemented that affect me directly? bviously, this health care discussion is really important. going on't know how it's to all finally play out, alex. we my instinct is if thoughtfully have a conversation with the american people of better if hink it's you're living in ohio for john

and thend the democrats republicans in the legislature to come up with a way to deliver care, to put personal esponsibilities into place, maybe have held savings accounts, maybe just a menu of ideas and concepts for them to and choose from, but allow for john and his colleagues in legislature to define that nd put it into place and for washington, if i'm -- if i'm harry reid, i m would love to get away from that issue. what?now maybe that's not such a bad idea. here -- >> you guys follow up. going to ask you something alex. then ask you specifically. everybody on the panel, specially you two guys, you talk about, you know, having a blue collar dad -- a dad who's collar. what does rick perry's father

hink and people like rick perry's father think about hedge funder that makes $1 billion a paying 15% tax rate while they're working their tail off probably clock, paying 28%, maybe 33%, 34%, 35%. they thinking about that? and why do we sit back and allow that to happen when it disconnects. romney ended up -- what did he pay? what was his tax rate? 16%, 17%? barack obama wasn't much better. unfair whether you're in west texas, whether you're a milkman in ohio. missed the boat by blindly defending those types of tax breaks. here ope i get out of alive, by the way. >> go ahead. >> and another thing.

perry's dad ck probably think that -- rick erry's dad probably thinks we're the grey poupon party. so.rightly we've allowed that to happen. when, in fact, in our hearts, very opposite of that. the more you complicate government, the more rules and regulations, the more power you what trate in one place, happens? the guys with the money, the lobbyist, and the lawyers, folks here. we know who wins. that's not been the republican party. republican party has been the bottom up party where verybody gets equal opportunity. not equal guarantee of results but everybody gets an equal shot. speak that way. we used to advocate policies like that. but now -- >> we used to nominate candidates. i hate to go back to it. hat about school and a place

like eureka. hold on -- think about who we nominated as a party for president? we nominated a guy in 12 whose dad ran a car company in the michigan. we nominated a guy in '08 whose dad ran the united states navy 1960s, '04 and 2000, we dad was a guy whose president. n '92 and '88, we nominated a guy whose father was the east coast establishment, i love all of them. respect for all of them. are we really wondering why we're not connecting to farmers in west texas and milk men in ohio. franklin roosevelt was a rich man. i don't think that's the issue. i know how to get demrautz here. stupid way we conduct presidential debates. >> i'm all for it, hell yeah, hell yeah. we get a standing ovation from you? >> let me ask doll yeah.

rick -- rick never -- ick called me up and he said, you know what do you think? i said i don't know what you're talking about. haven't heard one thing about texas. you remember that conversation? >> i do indeed. debates got everybody off track. s this a much more attractive way to do this, discuss the ideas and stop all of the back and forth and attacking one another. going to come through as to whether people are going to like you or not. way we were , the picking people was just dumb. i hope they'll figure something else out. secondly, joe, my father's father was a coal miner. died of black lung. my mother's mother never learned how to speak english. not told to resent rich people, we were told try to get them.one of blue collar -- >> by the way, i agree with too. mom and dad will tell me, joe, we work hard, you'll be

successful one day. what?ou know they always believed in a system that was fair. guysone of them think that should be paying 15%, 16%, 17% rates while they're working their tail off paying twice as much. you add everything up for a lot of people. some people can avoid it. 50% of everything you get to the government it's not great. people don't like that. i believe you what is the problem with the wage gap. in our education system is not the tools to compete and win in the industries with the jobs that exist. our education system k through -- s too mechanical, it's it's not flexible. it does not put kids out to where the jobs are. it does not feed their -- their -- their great passions, joe. mean, we need to save vocational education. you work in an hvac company today, you can make up to

$100,000. can become an entrepreneur. our education system is not measuring tools nor the passions of our students connected to the 21st century jobs. hurting america. the new york times had an article about this. is creating the great division in our country, in our job training programs leave so desired in america today. you've got to lose your job basically -- basically before people will help you get trained. instead of training people while to get the ing skills in an era of advanced 3-d printing, and you got to lose your job -- that's the way the federal programs.t runs the it makes no sense. e're running program to use casino money to train people. we have to train people, educate and feed their passions, have a flexible system that goes from pre-k to j. jobs.stands for we can do it. it's happening with the republican governors.

enough. talk about it >> i talked before about the energy revolution in oklahoma. the he great thing about energy revolution, oklahoma, texas, all the way to the dakot dakotas, it means in the next 20, 30, 40 years, we're not only oing to have the most productive workers in the world, right? we're going have some of the costs, we're going to see manufacturing jobs coming back. you hear this like john hears hear it, governor. you have business owners that say, yeah, we can build the but we may not have americans that will be able to work the jobs. but high-end i.t. jobs, we're talking about vocational training. in oklahoma?doing so when the jobs come, we have in there.to put them we're qualified to do it. >> i appreciate all of the discussion here. things we can make a point of. one is, what we can do as states' ns to help our economies and national economy is to create uncertainty in our

own states. uncertainty in washington, d.c. right now, shutdowns, sequesters, resolutions, whatever it might be. i had the opportunity to leave too.ress i'm glad we got smart and left congress and came back home to something else. because as governors, we're getting things done. nd we have -- unlike those in washington and frankly unlike the president, we have to get things done. will kick us out of office if we don't get things done. >> can you talk about the owners?s >> that's what i heard. saying a lot of people i used to be a republican, i'm not one now. all of the people in washington, don't let me plan ahead. forget next year, i can't plan quarter. the next >> they can't because there's so much uncertainty in washington, d.c. investing.t they don't hire more people, they don't spend their money on expanding products and services their companies, banks getting leery about lending

buying uying houses, cars. talked to all of the industries that told me the same thing. do is create the certainty. conservative principles that are still relevant, still working today. taxes low, letting people take personal responsibility which they should, creating the right work environment. speaking of workforce and education. poverty is the key to and ignorance in our nation. get a an help people better education, we can help them get the job they need so become productive citizens in our nation. maybe we can keep them out of out of our use, prisons, out of poverty itself. here's what we're doing in it homa and trying to do nationally. i had the opportunity right now to serve as a national chair of association.s and as a chair, we have an initiative that we launch. my initiative is putting america back to work.

called america works, education and training for tomorrow's jobs. what you find in america right is you do have companies have moved jobs overseas because of corporate tax rate, workers here, rules, regulations, or other types of policies. to try to get the countries to -- and they are, reshore the jobs back to america. in order to retain our jobs, we have to have the right skill our, the right education in nation to be able to provide those employers with the skills we need. now, we have a mismatch. back 55 years ago. of the jobs in america needed a high school degree to reach the middle class. your word, byron, middle class. to reach the middle class to make a good wage in america. ecause of technology, innovation, how we travel across the world an